MR. BARONE: Well, John, what I’d look at in Sacramento there, on that thing, is that is — I have great respect for David Broder, who’s written arguments that we shouldn’t bypass legislatures, disagree with him somewhat on this. The fact is that sometimes Sacramento totally overlooks people.

Example: bilingual education. The interest — it’s the interest of Spanish-speaking kids to learn English, which they must have to advance in this country. It has been prevented. The Democrats were prisoners of the left-wing Latinos and the teachers’ unions on this —

MS. CLIFT: We’re not talking about — (inaudible) — here. (Chuckles.)

MR. BARONE: — and the Republicans were uninterested.

* * *

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Issue five: Habla espanol?

GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH (R-TX): (From videotape.) A construir puentes, no parare.

VICE PRESIDENT AL GORE (D): (From videotape.) Bievenidos la Ronda Latina aqui. (Cheers, applause.)

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: The presidential candidates are polishing up their Spanish to court the Hispanic vote.

But in Arizona, some voters want to say adios to Spanish. A referendum to abolish bilingual education from the state’s schools will be on the Arizona ballot November 7th. Supporters of the measure hope to improve student performance.

When California scrapped bilingual education two years ago, its students’ standardized test scores went up.

Interestingly, many who support the English-only measure are themselves Hispanic. They say Arizona’s 30-year-old bilingual system is a sham, it leaves immigrant children with poor English skills and dooms them to educational and economic failure.

But opponents view the “ban bilingualism” initiative as grossly unfair. They say bilingual education maintains students’ native language skills and culture, and keeps them on an even footing with English-speaking students, because native tongues, as well as English, can become instruments of learning.

Others see the anti-bilingual measure as anti-immigrant.

What’s the principal motivation behind this initiative effort to ban bilingual education, Eleanor Clift?

MS. CLIFT: Well, I think, in the early ’90s when the Republican Party was on its war against immigrants, the anti-bilingual measures did convey a hostility towards the immigrant community. But I think if you look at this as an education theory, kids do better if they are immersed in English; but these measures rip away all help, and I think you want to be able to also give them some bilingual help. And neither of the presidential candidates, Bush or Gore, favor ending bilingual education totally.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Do you think this measure is anti-immigrant, or is it pro-assimilation?

MR. BARONE: I think it’s pro-immigrant, because it helps give Spanish-speaking immigrants a chance that people speaking other languages get, because they don’t get the bilingual education.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: To master the language?

MR. BARONE: To master the language, to be able to move up in society and not just work in garment sweatshops as their parents do, and have other opportunities. I think that — I mean, I’ve covered this thing. I’ve been out in California; I covered Proposition 227, which passed in June 1998 —

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Which provided what?

MR. BARONE: Which provided — it’s a twin of this Arizona measure, sponsored by entrepreneur Ron Unz, who is a conservative Republican, but with support from Alice Callaghan, who is a liberal- left ex-nun who heads a think tank —

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: What point will you be moving on to?

MR. BARONE: My point is that I have been in the classrooms. It’s working. The test scores are up. Kids are learning in English. You know, when you see somebody, a kid who — you see him in June — who’s speaking, reading fluently in English, who knew no English at the beginning of the school year — this can work. The other system held kids back and was evil.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: James?

MR. WARREN: But Michael, bilingual education is not a single form of instruction. To make a flat declaration that it works or doesn’t work verges on the meaningless.

MR. BARONE: We’ve had 30 years of experience of it not working.

MR. BLANKLEY: Well, look. Look —

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Tony? Let me hear from Tony.

MR. BLANKLEY: Look, quickly — by the way, the Republican Party was not anti-immigrants. It was anti-illegal-immigrants. But politically —

MS. CLIFT: A lot of immigrants in this country took that personally. (Laughs.)

MR. BLANKLEY: — politically that didn’t play, so they backed off of that. But there’s no question, on a policy basis, that bilingual education is damaging.

MR. MCLAUGHLIN: We all agree that this ban on bilingual education in Arizona will pass, correct?

MR. BARONE: Will pass.

MR. BLANKLEY: Yes.

MS. CLIFT: It will.



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